Crap from Facebook for September 17th, 2025

Should I even bother with this one? Probably not, but I'm annoyed at the moment and it's certainly crap I saw on Facebook. Here we go...

The misinformation surrounding Charlie Kirk is astounding - and I’m not talking about average people sounding off on social media - I’m talking about the bullshit being spread by major news outlets and so-called liberal journalists.

I’m looking at you, Ezra Klein.

While Kirk’s shooter was obviously overly steeped in internet whackadoo memelord culture - the “normies” don’t have a clue about how internet culture works at all.

It's extremely telling that some people can't look at what this shooter did and simply note that it is totally evil and profoundly messed up. Instead, they seem to think that if they can fit this individual into some specific bucket, they'll win a prize. You won't. Every sane person who sees you do this is thinking the same thing. 

Charlie Kirk wasn’t someone who was looking for honest debate. He was a political operative spreading hate and divisiveness. When you show his fans his racist, sexist or bigoted rhetoric - they defend it by saying “That’s not (racist, sexist, bigoted) - it’s true.” And that was his goal.

The word "operative" is fun here because it sounds sinister, like he was a spy or saboteur of some kind. But you get plausible deniability because technically "operative" can also mean anyone who does something, and that applies to anyone. So yeah, that's fun.

This whole sick affair is notable enough that I figured it would bring out the weirdos. But in principle, anyone who is in the business of deciding that they get to tell me the unstated goals of others, of the people they do not like and are actively being critical of, is itself worthy of "Crap from Facebook."

The whole “Prove Me Wrong” setup that made Kirk famous wasn’t really about proving anyone wrong. It was about creating content. Kirk mastered a specific type of performance that looked like debate but functioned more like a carefully orchestrated show designed to make his opponents look foolish and his positions seem unassailable.

That's how a debate is supposed to work, you buffoon. If you're not trying to make your own position seem unassailable and your opponents appear to be wrong or "foolish" then you're not practicing debate. You're doing some other, different thing.

The basic formula was simple - set up a table on a college campus, invite students to challenge conservative talking points, then use a combination of rhetorical tricks and editing magic to create viral moments. What looked like open discourse was actually a rigged game where Kirk held all the advantages.

But like I said, some of the videos I've seen myself weren't the ones filmed or edited by his team, but were footage recorded by others. And many of the others were longform, showing entire exchanges with no cuts.

First, there’s the obvious setup problem.

Kirk was a professional political operative who spent years honing his arguments and memorizing statistics. He knew exactly which topics would come up and had practiced responses ready.

So he was prepared? You know that's good, right? That's not a bad thing. It's not cheating or underhanded.

Meanwhile, his opponents were typically 19-year-old students who wandered over between classes. It’s like watching a professional boxer fight random people at the gym - the outcome was predetermined.

Well, some of his interlocutors were professors. And from what I could tell, an aspect of his agenda was to try and reach the hearts and minds of young people going to college or considering going to college. The venue makes sense and speaking with students, including young students, makes sense there. You're trying to make it sound nefarious.

Kirk used what debate experts call a corrupted version of the Socratic method.

You made that up just now, you lying fuck.

Instead of asking genuine questions to explore ideas, he’d ask leading questions designed to trap students in contradictions or force them into uncomfortable positions. He’d start with seemingly reasonable premises, then quickly pivot to more extreme conclusions, leaving his opponents scrambling to keep up.

You're describing debate tactics and trying to make them seem somehow bad or wrong. This sort of thing has been done for millennia. Read a damn book or something.

The classic example was his approach to gender identity discussions. Kirk would begin by asking seemingly straightforward definitional questions - “What is a woman?” - then use whatever answer he received as a launching pad for increasingly aggressive follow-ups. If someone mentioned social roles, he’d demand biological definitions. If they provided biological definitions, he’d find edge cases or exceptions to exploit.

Oh, I actually saw a bunch of videos with him doing that. And the reason he did it so much was because the interlocutors, almost invariably, didn't answer the simple question. Seriously, that's it. It's obvious that's the whole reason he did it.

This is like the easiest tactic to defeat in the world, and almost every single person he talked to immediately proceeded to play tic-tac-toe by leading with an edge play. Incidentally, this is one of the only parts of Kirk's agenda that I particularly found useful: exposing to the world the propensity for members of university communities in America to utterly flounder at a tactic that shouldn't even work in the first place.

If Charlie Kirk had asked me "What is a woman?" I would have offered him a dictionary definition and asked if there were any other common nouns that every English-speaker knows that we needed to review. What is a triangle? What is a cloud? What is a book?

It's not some super-elite debate trick. It's a trap with no bait in it, which is not armed. And he kept setting it on the floor and watching as they immediately armed the trap and then stepped into it.

The goal wasn’t understanding or genuine dialogue - it was creating moments where students appeared confused or contradictory.

Ah, the Oracle of Goals has spoken.

Kirk also employed rapid-fire questioning techniques that made it nearly impossible for opponents to fully develop their thoughts. He’d interrupt, reframe, and redirect before anyone could establish a coherent argument. This created the illusion that his opponents couldn’t defend their positions when really they just couldn’t get a word in edgewise.

Those are also good debate tactics. Incidentally, I don't doubt that he employed such tactics. But also, the person writing this drivel is relying on conveying the idea that not only are these things bad, but also that they were Charlie Kirk's bread and butter. And from what I can recall, a more common tactic of his was to just let people dig themselves into rhetorical graves. He didn't need to interrupt or redirect. He gave them a platform to make fools of themselves, and that was all it took.

The editing process was equally important. Kirk’s team would film hours of interactions, then cut together the moments that made him look brilliant and his opponents look unprepared. Nuanced discussions got reduced to gotcha moments. Students who made good points found those parts mysteriously absent from the final videos.

I wasn't a "fan" or anything, but sometimes videos of his made it into content I watched or listened to elsewhere. Some of these videos were 10 minutes, 20 minutes, or even longer of uncut footage. I'm sure that a lot of meticulous editing was used for YouTube shorts and such, but longform examples were (and are) readily available.

What’s particularly insidious about this approach is how it masquerades as good-faith debate while undermining the very principles that make real discourse valuable. Kirk wasn’t interested in having his mind changed or learning from others - he was performing certainty for an audience that craved validation of their existing beliefs.

I mean, you're writing a hit-piece on a guy who was just assassinated. You don't really have a leg to stand on when it comes to good-faith debate.

The “Prove Me Wrong” framing itself was misleading. It suggested Kirk was open to being persuaded when the entire setup was designed to prevent that possibility. Real intellectual humility requires admitting uncertainty, acknowledging complexity, and engaging with the strongest versions of opposing arguments. Kirk’s format did the opposite.

Charlie Kirk did not invent the phrase "prove me wrong." And it's essentially always been a challenge, not an earnest expression that one believes one is about to be successfully proven wrong.

This style of debate-as-performance has become incredibly popular because it feeds into our current political moment’s hunger for easy victories and clear villains. People want to see their side “destroying” the opposition with “facts and logic.” Kirk provided that satisfaction without the messy reality of actual intellectual engagement.

And what do you provide, vulture?

The broader damage extends beyond individual interactions. When debate becomes about humiliating opponents rather than exploring ideas, it corrupts the entire enterprise of democratic discourse. Students who got embarrassed in these exchanges weren’t just losing arguments - they were being taught that engaging with different viewpoints was dangerous and futile.

Dangerous. Interesting word choice there.

Kirk’s approach also contributed to the broader polarization problem by making political identity feel like a zero-sum game where any concession to the other side represented total defeat. His debates reinforced the idea that political opponents weren’t just wrong but ridiculous - a perspective that makes compromise and collaboration nearly impossible.

I'm open to the idea that the "Turning Point" approach might have some serious flaws or exacerbate problems that I'd rather see tackled in some other way.

But nah, this argument doesn't work. If Kirk's thesis is that universities are brainwashing students, and he engages with students (and faculty, for that matter) and seeks to publicize this and expose the purported brainwashing, one cannot attack his thesis on the grounds that he is "contributing to polarization."

The most troubling aspect might be how this style of engagement spreads. Kirk inspired countless imitators who use similar tactics in their own contexts. The model of setting up situations where you can’t lose, then claiming victory when your rigged game produces the expected results, has become a template for political engagement across the spectrum.

I'm sure his team appreciate you giving him credit for inventing something that he didn't invent at all. Dork. 

Real debate requires vulnerability - the possibility that you might be wrong and need to change your mind. Kirk’s format eliminated that possibility by design. His certainty was performative rather than earned, and his victories were manufactured rather than genuine.

Spoken like a true loser.

The tragedy of this approach is that college campuses actually need more genuine dialogue about difficult political questions. Students are forming their worldviews and wrestling with complex issues. They deserve engagement that helps them think more clearly, not performances designed to make them look stupid.

Oh man, I hate this crap so much. When I began attending a university, I had zero interest in the notion of "forming my worldview and wrestling with complex issues."

So to every pretentious twat who believes that adults are studying at universities so that they can form their worldviews, I invite you to go fuck yourselves.

Kirk’s assassination represents a horrific escalation of political violence that has no place in democratic society. But it’s worth remembering that his debate tactics, while not violent, were themselves a form of intellectual violence that treated political opponents as objects to be humiliated rather than fellow citizens to be engaged.

There's no such thing as intellectual violence, you stupid, idiotic, moron.

I’ve turned down every podcast and interview request that’s come my way in the past few months. Two reasons. First, I have zero interest in making myself the story. Second, and more importantly, I’m not some oracle with instant answers on demand.

I actually have no idea at all who this person is, nor what the context for that statement is. I mean, I'm satisfied that this person is contemptible and that any podcast involving this person is worthless. But that's about it.

Podcasts and debates aren’t designed for real intellectual work. They’re built for entertainment. Serious thinking doesn’t happen in a soundbite. It requires time to wrestle with ideas, to sit with them, to test them against reality. My first reaction isn’t always my best one - and I’m honest enough to admit that. What feels true in the moment often crumbles under reflection. That’s why I’d rather write than perform.

Name one serious idea. Give me a single example of your "real intellectual work."

Because while I also make my living from creating content - I refuse to mistake performance for truth.

You make a living from this crap? What? How?